An Item for Maggie (was Re: Important question!)
[8 November 2000]

In every circumstance I have found that the item is God.

From: Gerry Armstrong <>
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Subject: An Item for Maggie (was Re: Important question!)
Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2000 14:13:59 -0800

On Tue, 31 Oct 2000 14:12:33 GMT, "M. C. DiPietra" <> wrote:

>in article, Gerry Armstrong at
> wrote on 10/30/00 5:43 PM:
>> On Sun, 29 Oct 2000 16:20:37 GMT, Richard (
>> wrote:
>>> On Sun, 29 Oct 2000 12:13:13 +0100, "roger gonnet"
>>> ( wrote:
>>>> Please, do your L & N on this question ;(listing and nulling, a process who
>>>> should "give you the right item in answer")
>>>> (the question being directed only to those having been ate least 12-18
>>>> months in scientology):
>>>> "From you, who has NOT BEEN handled as a PTS while in scientology"?
>>> Sorry, that question will always read since the keyword is not at the
>>> end. Trust me on this: I was trained as class IV and did nothing but
>>> SecCheck.
>>> Phrase it thus:
>>> While you where in Scientology, who was not handled as a PTS?
>>> I think you should get a nice instant, persistent, Theta bop on this
>>> as the PC will instantly attain the stage of Wanting-to-get-out just
>>> after realizing he knows of nobody who was not handled as a PTS during
>>> all that time.
>> Remember, God is the LFBD F/N item for every properly asked L & N
>> question.
>> And indeed you'll find that God remains completely unhandled by
>> $cientology.
>> (c) Gerry Armstrong
>Gerry, I think this is an important point. But could you explain it so that
>non-Scns like me can really understand?

Thanks for asking.

There are some people on a.r.s. and abroad who have libraries of
Hubbard's writings and who perhaps will add some of his statements on
listing and nulling. I'm sure it has a big section in the index to the
Tech Volumes which I don't have with me. It is a significant,
identifiable process and technique in $cientology auditing. I audited
L & N sessions and steps in the RPF, in fact the vast majority of the
auditing I did was in the RPF, supervised by the first and foremost
$nr C$ Int (Senior Case Supervisor International) and crammed by our
Blown Busdriver , the Flag Cramming Officer. And of course through my
$cientology years I had L & N done and run on me many times. Inside
$cientology, still hoping that the tech would "work," I found L & N,
along with the concept of "assessments," which are also set processes
and auditing techniques related to L & N, to be evidence that auditing
was, as I was being told, scientific and brilliant.

Again, techie archivists are invited to participate and say what
source says, and what you have to say about what source says. These
are just my thoughts nineteen years after my last auditing session. L
& N seeks to find an "item," a sort of single answer, to a kind of
question which invites an identifiable single item for the single
possible answer. They commonly begin with "Who" or "What" or "Who or
what," although it is the nature and intention, rather than the "Who"
or "what" or other form, which makes an L & N question what it is. It
seeks an item by getting the person to list all the possibilities and
through the L&N processing technique and according to the meter,
finding or determining the item.

A question, which we could hear in any conversation on any day, which
could generate a list in search of the item, which would be a person
or thing or activity, might be: "What makes you the way you are?" In
casual conversation, the list and the item and even if the process was
done to any kind of EP (End Phenomena: the expected and only allowable
occurrences at the end of a process) is completely dependent on
outside forces. But, theorizes Hubbard, questions can be asked in
life, even in a casual conversation, which cause a person to list,
that is, list the possible answers or items, and like as not, lacking
$cientology, give themselves no item or the wrong item. In
$cientology this would be self-listing, a completely impermissible
activity, and absolute evidence of an "out-list," indicative of a

Permissible listing in $cientology occurs (in the best of all possible
$cientology worlds) only in the auditing session, as directed by the
C/S (Case Supervisor: instructs the auditor what processes to run). In
the auditing session, every deep question, such as "What makes you the
way you are?" can be audited to full EP. A person with an out list,
which, Hubbard says quite clearly, can occur in session or in life,
manifests in various BIs (Bad Indicators [but good band
name]:-)-<-<. Perhaps the tech archivists will post Hubbard's symptoms
for out lists. I think it would add greatly to everyone's enjoyment of
this subject.

The question, "What makes you the way you are?" clearly (I almost
never have successfully resisted using that word if it was even
remotely appropriate) has for anyone, any number of answers depending
on any number of things including any number of ways you might be
looking at the way you are. Hubbard states, and every auditor knows,
that there is one item and one item alone. The discovery of that one
item will be accompanied by a Long Fall Blow Down (LFBD) , a Floating
Needle (F/N), a cognition (cog) and other Very Good Indicators (VGIs),
which would have the preclear being audited happy, smiling, laughing,
or crying for joy, etc. During this EP, the auditor will indicate to
the preclear that the item, the LFBD F/N item, is his or her item.
Something just like this: "I'd like to indicate that [blah blah blah]
is your item."

If a person were asked, "What makes you the way you are?" sitting in a
session in a black boiler suit right after being ordered to the RPF
for R/Sing (Rockslam: needle movement indicating an evil intention),
the list and item are going to be one set. A different set would be
obtained from the same question asked of, let's say, the owner of the
Coleman Lantern Company, in a $700.00 per hour weanie dusting session
after going Full OT VIII. "What makes you the way you are?" "Ron."

"L&N can either be a set, well established process which will not
change in $cientology until the end of time. (Techies please give us
some classics.) One of the Grade IV processes comes to mind: "What do
you use to make others wrong?" or close to that. Everyone gets run on
that process who proceeds through the $cientology "grades." Grade IV
is a search for a preclear's service facsimile, the picture,
computation and resultant set of actions, by which a person, stupidly
(otherwise why get rid of it or change anything?), makes other people
wrong, and makes himself right. The irony is that $cientology is what
$cientologists use to make other people (what other people are there
but *wogs* ? ) wrong , and make themselves right. Because
$cientologists must dramatize a serfac ($cientology is indeed an item)
just to be $cientologists, they really must, in order to escape their
fixed condition, become born again wogs .

There are certain times in auditing when something a pc says while
being run on one process requires the auditor to run L & N as a
technique on the something said. Let's say the pc starts talking about
having the heebie-jeebies and there's a long fall on heebie-jeebies
(LF). An L & N question which might result from that could be, "Who or
what gives you the heebie-jeebies?" When the auditor asks an L & N
question he would expect it to read, that is, produce a small fall,
fall, long fall or long fall blowdown at the end of the question. A
long fall blowdown is a fall which goes off the meter dial (blowing
down) requiring the lowering of the Tone Arm (TA) to get the needle
back on the dial. This meter movement, the LFBD, followed by an F/N,
is required upon the pc's identification of the sought item.

The auditor asks the question, it reads, and he gets the pc to answer
with items. The auditor writes down the pc's answers, and notes any
reads (SF, F, LF, LFBD). If the pc exhausts his list without getting
an LFBD F/N item, the auditor will null the list, eliminating
unreading items by assessment, by repeating the pc's items to him and
recording the instant meter reads as each item is called. Supposedly,
the item left reading after all others have ceased reading is the
item. If the wrong item is indicated so Hubbard says, the pc will
spin. There is famous Repair List, the L4[--], for repairing out
lists, wrong items, and all the things which can go wrong with L & N.

$cientologists are actually knowingly running black $cientology on
people all the time, and one of the common techniques is black L & N.
$cientologists practice black $cientology on wogs and even on
$cientologists because that it's perfectly okay to do so.
$cientologists are implanted with the wrong item that "suppressive
persons" are the source of their problems, and the companion wrong
item that the only handling (an item) for SPs (and for that matter any
problem) is to "attack."

You'll find the $cientologists assigned to "handle" picketers ask
listing questions designed to spin in the picketers. "What is your
crime?" is one of their favorites. $cientology tech really is black
$cientology tech when it's realized that all of the question asking is
designed to ensure the people being asked never find the answer. The
questions are there also to get rich $cientologists to pay mountains
of money to find answers. And the questions are asked so
$cientologists never cognite that $cientology is the item on their

In the question, "Who or what gives you the heebie-jeebies?" are the
implications that you have, or at least get, the heebie-jeebies, that
heebie-jeebies are real, and that there is a single source for the
heebie-jeebies you have, or have gotten. The list can go on and on,
and the item change throughout a pc's auditing lifetime. A person who
knows that God is the LFBD F/N item to every properly asked L & N
question, however, would know instantly that "Who or what gives you
the heebie-jeebies?" is an improper L & N question, since God doesn't,
among the His manifold Gifts, give the heebie-jeebies. And let's say
that God does give good heebie-jeebies; He's still the LFBD F/N Item.

The question, "What makes you the way you are?" can provoke all sorts
of answers, and to a thoughtful $cientologist perhaps, "I do,"
sounding very responsible and an answer $cientology can use, would be
an acceptable LFBD F/N item. $cientologists, after all, are implanted
with the idea that they are "responsible for their own condition." The
only LFBD F/N item if the question is properly asked, however, is God.
And indeed, the way a pc really is is exactly as God created him or

The question, "What do you use to make others wrong?" wrongly
indicates that you do something to achieve that goal. If you knew that
you couldn't make anyone wrong, because everyone is as God made him,
why go searching for something you don't want to do and can't do?
Since God created wogs and others in His Image, He doesn't make
anyone wrong. "What makes you right?" is a perfectly proper L & N
question. Although, it's probably observable that if God is indeed the
LFBD F/N answer to every properly asked L & N question, then there
isn't much of a need to ask much of anything at all.

In every circumstance, qualified, it goes without saying, by safety,
courtesy and wisdom, one can look to God for the answer to the
question. $cientology does not permit God to be anyone's item, nor to
be the Source of the answers, nor to even be the Source of the
$cientologist. $cientology, through its Godless "spiritual
technology," seeks to be the "source" of answers, of wisdom, of life
itself, to $cientologists; plus wants to give the same mind-numbing,
heart-stopping wrong item to unsuspecting wogs .

Ask any $cientologist, "What works?" and the LFBD F/N item will be
"$cientology." Yet it can be demonstrated by records, by reason and by
actual scientific experiment and proof that $cientology doesn't work.
It is a wrong item. $cientology is the right item to the question,
"What doesn't work?" but no $cientologist could possibly list it. It
is in any case a question which doesn't even have to be asked, since
God is the LFBD F/N item to the properly asked question, "What works?"

In every circumstance I have found that the item is God. LFBD/FN.

Gerry Armstrong

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>     M.C.DiPietra (, SP4, KoX
>"Hell, if you understood everything I say, you'd be me!" -Miles Davis


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